-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:26:36 -0500 To: Richard Moore <•••@••.•••> From: Ed Goertzen <•••@••.•••> Subject: Response to Richard & Bo: Reader Dialogue Jan 29 --<snip>-- Community: 1/ Men live in a community in virtue of the things which they have in common; and communication is the way in which they come to possess those things in common. What they must have in common in order top form a community or society are aims, beliefs, aspirations, knowledge - a common understanding - like-minded ness, as the sociologists say. Such things cannot be passed physically from one to another, like bricks; they cannot be shared as persons would share a pie by dividing it into physical pieces. The communication which ensures participation in a common understanding is one which secures sibilant emotional as intellectual dispositions. - Like ways of responding to expectations and requirements. 2/ As soon as a community depends to any considerable extent upon what lies beyond its own territory and its own immediate generation, it must rely upon a set agency of schools to ensure adequate transmission of all its resources. I'll warrant that of all of us communication on the Internet there are less than 1/2 of 1% who know the names and occupations of 5 of their immediate neighbours. That is the way that the word community has been corrupted. Community, regardless of the images of motherhood and apple pie it evokes, has come to mean an interest group, be that employment, religious sect or recreational interests. Eric Hobsbawm, among historians world famous, has said in "Age of extremes" there is no longer a thing called community' in the original definition of the word. Maggie Thatcher a famous neo-con, has said 'there is no longer a society, only individuals'. I can think of no other way to break through the "abstract" relationships that we all take for granted than to "talk to the people", person to person. Regards Ed G --- Hi Ed, Real community, based on physical contiguity, has indeed been disappearing at a rapid rate. We need to recreate that kind of community, and I use the term in that sense, in hope. cheers, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: •••@••.••• Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 01:30:40 EST Subject: Re: reader dialog - to Jan 29 To: •••@••.••• like sitting in a cafe and hearing real conversations. thanks Richard. --- Hi Jim - my pleasure! - rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 09:08:35 -0500 To: •••@••.••• From: Ed Goertzen <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: Definition - Neighbourhood vs Community - Quote Hi Richard: As you are no doubt aware, as is Noam Chomsky, the use of language is the prerequisite to comprehension. We, and most writers, use the term community and neighbourhood inter changeably. Definitions have changed, but users of the words have not kept up with the changes in definition. World renouned Eric Hobsbawm is quoted, " "The pervasive influence of neo-classical economics, which in secular western societies increasingly took the place of theology, and the influence of the ultra-individualist American jurisprudence, encouraged such rhetoric. It found political expression in the British premier Margaret Thatcherís: 'there is no society, only individuals'. Yet, whatever the excesses of theory, practice was often equally extreme. Sometime in the 70's, social reformers in the Anglo-Saxon countries, rightly shocked (as inquirers periodically were) by the effects of institutionalization on the mentally ill or impaired, successfully campaigned to have as many of them as possible let out of confinement ëto be cared for in the community'. But in the cities of the West there no longer was a community to care for them. There was no kin. Nobody knew them. There were only the streets of cities like New York filled with homeless beggars with plastic bags who gestured and talked to themselves. Pp337 Age Of Extremes by Eric Hobsbawm Neighbourhood clearly defines a people in a small geographic area, community does not! Community increasingly, even exclusively defines people in communion, who talk to each other. That defines a workplace, an interest group, or a worship gathering. Since neighbours rarely talk to each other, they are not a community. Regards Ed G --- See previous comments, just above, re 'community'. I do not agree that people were forced out of institutionalization out of concern for their welfare. I think it was part of the neoliberal campaign to destroy entitlements. rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:26:51 -0800 (PST) From: Diana Skipworth <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: Barbara Ehrenreich:'Collective joy' To: •••@••.••• Dear Richard, In Washington, D.C. I hung around a group of anarchists. As you may know, they cover up their faces and dance around waving flags and beating the drums... The D.C. police followed closely. We chanted, "The People, united, can never be defeated! The People, united, can never be defeated!" I totally understand the point about dancing in the streets and the physical danger by the power who hold the guns. There was no permit to march ON the U.S. Capital Building, but with their chanting, drums and courage, the anarchists defied the police. How I admire them! I followed along with my camera. The anarchists thanked the people with cameras, as with nobody filming, who knows what might have happened to them! As the sky grew dark and it was time to catch my bus ride home, the blue flashing lights followed the anarchist's progress around the capital. I said a silent prayer for their protection as I took my leave. Diana Skipworth --- Hi Diana, I am of course glad to see people standing up for freedom, but I am not comfortable with this business of wearing masks. I think we need to take note of the fact that when police do attack with their clubs and pepper spray, they usually go after the more peaceful protestors, not the ones with masks. The net effect of the 'anarchists' is to make police brutality more acceptable to TV audiences. I see the anarchists as doing the job, usually inadvertently, of agent provacateurs. rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: •••@••.••• Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:16:18 EST Subject: Re: Barbara Ehrenreich: 'Collective joy' To: •••@••.••• what a wonderful story, makes me want tostop writing you and dance. best Jim --- As Emma Goldman said, if I can't dance, I don't want to be in your revolution. -------------------------------------------------------- From: David Cameron <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: Barbara Ehrenreich: 'Collective joy' Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:05:22 -0400 To: Richard Moore <•••@••.•••> Dear Richard, perhaps I haven't been paying close enough attention, but it seems that with the "Akashic" posting and this one reviewing BarbaraEhrenreich's work, you have taken sort of a new turn...all to the good by me, if that is the case. While I am intensely interested in socio-political analysis and the virtual modeling of change, I am even more interested in what people can do now to reclaim their spiritual or"soul" heritage. My wife, Nancy Sherwood (also like Ehrenreich, a grandmother) has for some years been offering a shamanic dance training that helps individuals access their "true" nature and/or reconnect to the more primal aspects of being human in a totally alive and conscious cosmos. The training, called The Mandala Hologram, makes ritual a natural aspect of daily life and utilizes mirror-neuron techniques in a group setting that encourages deep emotional catharsis, creative authenticity and spontaneous ecstatic movement. It has been a hard road! Often the uptake has been hampered by our out-of-the-way location and non-mainstream lifestyle, as well as by how unusual and potentially frighteningly "different" one may appear to the general population if one participates and exhibits real change.However dozens of students have "graduated" over the past 7 years,including some from the UK. Nancy is determined to see her work spread to help enliven and rehabilitate our modern culture. The Hollowed shall become Hallowed once Moore! Publication of the Ehrenreich piece was accordingly courageous on your part and very supportive of Nancy's work. We both thank you. May I post it on a new website I am building (http://davesfreelunch.com) with full attribution to Gardner and yourself? Which brings me to another topic-Given the way current internet searchengines work, cross linking of related sites can really boost site rankings and hence accessibility of information to seekers. I bring this up in part because I see that Escaping The Matrix has a ranking of less than 5 on Google. Your site is way too valuable to be so ranked! Would you consider a cross-linking program? I don't know much about this & you likely have access to those that do. I think you ask owners of sites that are like-minded (and you trust) to link to you and permission to link to them. Thank you for your continued optimistic, intelligent, uplifting and encouraging efforts. sincere regards, David Cameron ------ Hi David, Yes, I'm definitely trying to post 'positive' things to cj & rn, and use newslog for news/analysis. Everything I post is available to post elsewhere. I'm quite happy for people to link to our sites, but I find it difficult to take the time to add links to our sites. best wishes, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 12:34:48 -0800 (PST) From: Diana Skipworth <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: America: From Freedom to Fascism- a review... To: •••@••.••• Dear Richard, Did you know Aaron Russo has cancer for the third time? He is such a fearless one and someone I admire. I just am starting on YouTube as greatbroad. I haven't posted any videos yet, as my computer needs some upgrades, first. Please also put video on YouTube about your trips to D.C.!!! Some jerk kept trying to get into my Paypal account and my ID has already been stolen before and I guess I am kind of paranoid about electronic money. So, I snail-mailed a check to Point Roberts, WA today for $1,000. (I rushed and did it before I changed my mind, as money is tight for moving companies these days.) The Feb. 5, 2007 Kane County Chronicle, pg 4A: "States begin revolt against national ID." The Maine Legislature on Jan. 26 overwhelmingly adopted a resolution objecting to the Real ID Act of 2005. The paper further states that within a week of Maine's action, lawmakers in Georgia, Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico, Vermont and Washington state also balked at Real ID. They are expected soon to pass laws or adopt resolutions declining to participate in the federal identification network. About a dozen states have active legislation against Real ID, including Arizona, Georgia, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Missouri, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Utah and Wyoming. Missouri state Rep. James Guest, as Republican, formed a coalition of lawmakers from 34 states to file bills that oppose or protest Real ID. "This is almost a frontal assault on the freedoms of America when they require us to carry a national ID to monitor where we are," Guest said in an interview Saturday. "That's going too far. This does nothing to stop terrorism. Don't burden the American people with this requirement to carry this ID." ---By the way, the overtaking of the United States of America, to me is similar to when the Inquisition happened. The Church tortured and killed all those who opposed them as "heretics" while the ignorant masses cheered. Regards, -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:34:34 -0800 (PST) From: Diana Skipworth <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: America: From Freedom to Fascism- a review... To: •••@••.••• Dear Richard, I am not a great intellectual thinker, but rather an intuitive feeler. And, when I saw this movie last July 2006 I felt I was suffering a panic attack. I felt the same way in 1996 after viewing the British documentary, "The Men Who Killed Kennedy." So what does someone like me, who lives in the suburbs of Chicago really know for sure. Except I do agree "something's rotten in the state of Denmark," type of thing. What had bothered me especially when Freedom to Fascism came out, was it lacked any support or mention by the MoveOn.org people. They could have made such a difference, but chose not to back this film. When Michael Moore did HIS documentary (Farenheit 9/11), the MoveOn.org folks became fully engaged, flogging their members repeatedly to support Mr. Moore and making a big deal about us writing letters to the editor, having house parties, etc... But when Mr. Russo's documentary was released, the silence was deafening! There was no surge of support over the Internet by MoveOn.org and I have always wondered why. So it happened I had a falling-out with MoveOn.org. I told them I was through with them because it appears to me that they have sold-out to the established machinery. I will no longer support them with $$ or activist activities, and I feel they have betrayed Aaron Russo as well as myself. I am simply writing to get this off my chest and dump on you because of the provocative sentiments strike a chord. Diana -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brian Hill" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: 'Escaping the Matrix' reviewed in Rachel's Weekly! Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 08:02:54 -0800 Organization: Institute for Cultural Ecology Richard; Rachael's mag gets very wide and very activist circulation - this should be good. Brian in Willits -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Greco -- CIRC2" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: 'Escaping the Matrix' reviewed in Rachel's Weekly! Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 09:50:03 -0700 Congratulations, Richard. Great review. I'll post it on my blog, Tom's News and Views: http://tomazgreco.wordpress.com. Tom -------------------------------------------------------- From: •••@••.••• Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 12:11:07 EST Subject: Re: 'Escaping the Matrix' reviewed in Rachel's Weekly! To: •••@••.••• it is a wonderful review. CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:45:58 -0800 (PST) From: Diana Skipworth <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: 'Escaping the Matrix' reviewed in Rachel's Weekly! To: •••@••.••• Dear Richard, I am thrilled to hear about this! Kudos!! Diana -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 09:48:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Frances Moore Lappé : Time for Progressives to Grow Up From: Rosa Zubizarreta <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Richard, Thank you for sending out this awesome essay... -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brian Hill" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: Frances Moore Lappe: Creating Real Prosperity Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:04:11 -0800 Organization: Institute for Cultural Ecology What do others think of defining 'buying local' as buying from locally owned, socially conscious/ecologically sustainable producers anywhere in the world? In other words, I would suggest we not be opposed to global transportation of locally produced goods as long as they are certified to be socially conscious and locally ecologically sustainable. Because we live in a world that for the first time communicates globally, but we must still have a local focus. Brian Hill --- Hi Brian, Sure, we need to be flexible. The big thing is to get rid of the corporate/financier middleman. At the same time, we need to take into account the energy wastage of long distance transport, when local producers can give us equivalent products. cheers, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:49:14 -0500 From: "Mark Batten-Carew" <•••@••.•••> To: •••@••.••• Subject: Re: The structure of modern Western imperialism: some thoughts Just to clarify, the order of events is: economic destabilization, and if that fails, then political destabilization, and if that fails, then military invasion. There is a book that goes into great detail about this, called "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man", by John Perkins. He had the role of economic destabilizer for many years, and saw the consequences when his attack failed. -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 23:08:49 -0600 (CST) From: <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: The structure of modern Western imperialism: some thoughts To: •••@••.••• I think what you say was more true in 1975 than now. It seems to me the fragmented powers/interests of the western states are more and more at each other's throats. Also it's harder and harder to speak of the Third World because it has differentiated itself since 1945. Eg one of the chief US imperial impulses post 1991 was directed at central Asia, by the Oil Mob. Is/was central Asia the "third world"? And while that was going on, the semiconductor and personal computing industrial empires flourished and didn't give three hoots about the Oil Mob. One of baby Bush's first speeches noted this, obliquely -- he was talking about the need to bolster the neglected energy industry and pointed out with his simian smile that even the fanciest supercomputer has to be plugged into the wall now and then. The Israeli interest amid the US is another fragmented power/interest that pursues its own ends often at odds with others. Greg Palast's last book Armed Madhouse throws some light here (on serious differences between the Oil Mob and Likud Lobby as they hatched the Iraq war). In short: To speak of "the structure of modern Western imperialism" seems to me to presume too much structure and too much cohesion. The scene seems more and more feudal and the warfare increasingly internecine. (But this is already old hat.) --- Hi newcombat, Certainly any attempt to identify structure in world events can be criticized as being oversimplified. At the same time, it is all to easy to throw up ones hands and say "It's all too complicated to understand." In mathematics, one talks about 'first approximations', 'second approximations' etc. If you have a reasonable 'first approximation', that gives you a good ballpark, and then you can talk about the discrepancies as discrepancies, narrowing the scope of what needs to be understood. One of the reasons I posted that brief analysis was because I think the conflicts between the Western powers are highly overrated. Anti-war sentiments are high in places like Germany, France, and Italy, and political leaders like to act as if they are sympathetic. But how sympathetic they really are needs deeper inspection. We need to remember that people like Merkel are supported by the Bilderbergers, and we need to acknowledge that NATO is becoming more and more a full partner in imperialist aggression, and that UN 'peacekeepers' are playing imperial cleanup roles. cheers, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: "William Engdahl" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: reflections on Munich Wehrkunde remarks [Putin's speech at European security conference] Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 06:50:48 +0100 Richard For your reading best William --<ship>-- Hi Bill, I really appreciate that you send your new writings directly to me. I always post them to newslog. You are, in my opinion, the foremost commentator on current geopolitics, with Chossudovsky as a close second. best wishes, richard -------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Ellis <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: The structure of modern Western imperialism: some thoughts Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 08:10:03 -0500 To: •••@••.•••, Richard Moore <•••@••.•••> rkm> ... NGOs play an important role in imperialism, usually an unwitting one. Not only do they participate in the occupation regime, reducing the budget requirements of national occupation efforts, but they create an illusion that 'something is being done', which serves to placate Western populations. This is a brief outline. If you folks want to comment, we could explore this situation in greater depth. ...rkm I like your brief outline and would be pleased to participate in the discussion. I would only suggest that the "dominator paradigm" that you would like to end is more than a U.S. UK invention. It's root go back to the Jewish Creation Myth that holed that man is the center of the universe which God created for his use; the early Christian Church that taught that there was a hierarchy of domination that went from God, the the angels, to Man, to woman, to children, to other races and to the Earth itself, The Inquisition that by burning some 1,000,000 "heretics" at the stake "convinced" other Europeans, to accept the God theory as truth; the Age of Colonization that with the flag (nationalism), the sword (technology, and the cross (Christianity} spread the domination paradigm world wide; and finally with the Adam Smith economics that makes "self-Interest," "competition," and Materialism the morality of the world. Although a very different social/economic paradigm live and still lives in most non EuroAmerican cultures a scientific basis for cultures based on community, belonging, and mutual aid is not only emerging. If you would like more on the GaianParadigm see: http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Bill_Ellis --- Hi Bill, Thanks for your comments. I first realized the central importance of the Garden of Eden myth from reading Daniel Quinn's, "The Story of B". I think that's one of the most revolutionary books ever published. rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:11:17 -0500 To: •••@••.••• From: Ed Goertzen <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: The structure of modern Western imperialism: some thoughts Hi Richard: In ancient Mesopotamia the caravan international traders were also the international financiers and arms dealers. They introduced metal coins as money to replace the clay disk that the god-kings of the city states used for money. But they only loaned them to the citizens of the day, at interest. The interest increased the numeric quantity of the money supply, but did not increase the quantity of metal. The "Deficit Imperative" caused a national debt that could only be paid by the selling of slaves, who were then put to work in the mines to mine - more metal. If a city state refused to pay its debt, the arms department of the caravan traders sold arms to a neighbouring city-state to pillage and take the slaves by force. Has anything really changed in 8007 years? Regards Ed G -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Patterson" <•••@••.•••> To: •••@••.••• Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:06:26 +0700 (ICT) Subject: Re: The structure of modern Western imperialism: some thoughts Hi Richard, About the main thing you overlooked in this was the central role of propaganda as dispensed by the MSM in support of all this. For the last few months I have been able to listen to the CBC radio, which is the Canadian version of BBC (I have been in Thailand for the last 12 years and until I got broadband in my room a few months ago could not get any radio) - and have been struck again and again by what is happening in this regard, from what used to be a very good national radio. The propaganda is blatant at times (and full spectrum, from the passing bewilderment expressed at those darn silly people who refuse to put seatbelts (and of course the 'good' citizens want the approval of those important folks on the radio) on to the continual boosterism for the Afghanistan invasion, 'support our troops!!'), less so at others ( the dog that did not bark in the night - what they do not talk about) - and I have the impression that many, perhaps most, of the 'journalists' actually believe what they are saying - that is how deep the indoctrination has been in Canada - so when people like you or I write them letters, they just ignore them, with no more than occasional references to 'fringe groups'. This is the second thing I have been getting depressed about, how so many people seem to have been completely taken in by the propaganda in the public at large, and how unintelligent so many of those people actually seem - what can you do with someone who is truly indoctrinated, and is not interested in talking about it, or in people telling them so because they love their masters and trust their government and leaders fully, as they have been well trained to do? (oh, anyone will bitch about this or that particular thing, but in general it's the best goshdarn government anywhere! (they've been indoctrinated all of their lives to believe this, and do) I have been getting depressingly close to the conclusion, after decades of 'fighting the good fight' as best I could, that it may well all be hopeless - we are truly little more than people in a small rowboat bouncing on the waves in a dark night shouting at the passengers inside the captain's ballroom in the titatnic (not a real good analogy, as the condition of most of these people is nowhere near that luxurious, but the other seems valid). I hear people interviewed on the morning show (a local show from Prince Edward Island, which is sort of 'the sticks' of Canada, a poor-relative island province with a historical background of farming and fishing families - mostly really good people, of course, salt of the earth, hard-working and honest, but with a very constrained 'world view', with more or less complete trust in their government and media, and the attitude that even if they don't understand much of what is happening in the world, by golly if the government is sending our troops to some place on the other side of the world, then they must be doing something very good, the brave lads, and it is our duty to support them!! - etc and etc. And they do NOT want to hear anything to the contrary. (each week now the Island CBC has a 'feature' of the wife of a soldier doing a verbal diary, some humor etc - by golly, these fine folk could never be involved in anything wrong!!!) And the dumbing down of everyone is no theory, but a well advanced program - it is like reading a bad book or something to hear some of the people they interview, normal community people - their words of course indicate they know little about what is happening, but the tone of voice is what is most disconcerting, even 'adults' in their 20s and 30s and older, they are all like high school kids in adult bodies, with that kind of self-conscious, immature voice, a similar non-existent understanding of almost anything outside of their daily lives, almost all of them with that voice raised at the end of a sentence habit of teenagers describing something. I heard a 'major' talking to some troops preparing to leave Afghanistan a few days ago, and his voice was the voice of a high school senior talking to his football team after a game or something - sounded like he should still be in the Boy Scouts, not leading troops in a war anywhere - no wonder they're shooting civilians all over the place there. And the hosts and newscasters are regressing equally - it gets quite irritating to listen to newscasts from PEI with readers who, again, sound like they are doing a high school broadcast - you know, the voices full of 'appropriate' emotion - hushed for bad news things, surprise and shock at other times, the hint of outrage, and hush again, when talking about 'evil terrorists' - the whole bit. On CBC, which, before I left Canada at least, was in the same ballpark as the BBC in terms of high-quality, intelligent programming and hosts. What a fall they have taken. And the announcers are all 'chirpy' sorts, everything's wonderful!! - and they are ALL on the gov programs, and if they have to acknowledge, at times, people who disagree with the gov programs, you can almost see, over the radio, their little disapproving pinched lips, the coldness and exclusion in their voices for these people who don't like this great society (but of course we will give them a say, occasionally - this is, after all, a democracy and they have a right to their opinion!). The national programs are a little better, but only in the greater 'adulthood' of the announcers - the propaganda line is still the same, the boosterism for gov programs, the aggressiveness towards those they occasionally interview who oppose the gov programs (and only the tamest of these ever get invited, the 'token progressives' - those who could deal effectively with the propaganda, who understand the bigger picture and can elucidate it effectively, seem on their 'do not invite' list) - I've written a number of letters about these things, but none ever get answered or acknowleged. Which is not surprising. The thing is, the CBC is the radio for the 'thinking people' in Canada, that 5% or whatever who want more in their world view than they get from tabs and right-wing media. And they're being heavily propagandized now in a way they (we, I guess!) were not when I was last listening to that station regularly 12+ years ago. And I have to think that that propaganda is having at least some effect - certainly on younger people without the historical perspective of we older ones. And there are, of course, still a lot of good things happening in Canada, and that is part of the propaganda too - look at the good stuff - it's a good country! - and so it is. But some of us see behind that curtain of goodness, that some rot is eating away at the inside of what we love so much, and it going downhill, on a slippery slope from which I fear it is going to be very difficult to recover, anytime soon - and certainly not without some critical mass of the people simply understanding what is happening, and wanting to do something about it - and that critical mass is what I am now starting to fear is never going to happen. (The future? Not sure - either they succeed with their '1000 year reich' and Mordor takes over - or they do a dog in the manger trick as the social movements driven by the South start to make advances and blow us all up - or maybe I am wrong altogether about the critical mass, and one day we will wake up and find that Cohen was right, and 'democracy (really) is comin..'. Or there's about a million other possibilities, of course - the X factor must always be considered, and it is still a wonderful world we live in, with many wonderful people doing many wonderful things as well, underneath the subset of grubby humans who are running most of it...) Anyway, we keep fighting - take care, Richard, always enjoy reading your stuff. Thanks for sparking me to write something - been fighting against that sense of hopelessness for a few days. Dave Patterson Hat Yai, Thailand - and Green Island http://www.rudemacedon.ca/lgi/ogi-home.html -- -------------------------------------------------------- Escaping the Matrix website http://escapingthematrix.org/ cyberjournal website http://cyberjournal.org Community Democracy Framework: http://cyberjournal.org/DemocracyFramework.html subscribe cyberjournal list mailto:•••@••.••• Posting archives http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/