re: global warming — the science


Richard Moore


I got 35 responses to the Global Warming posting, which is I think a 
new record. Many thanks for your contributions. Many were similar, so 
I'll be posting representative examples. The consensus re/the science 
was that the documentary was bogus. Some disagreed however, and they 
raised other points that may turn out to be more  important than the 
science, as regards understanding what's going on politically. Those 
will be covered in an accompanying posting.


To: Richard  Moore <•••@••.•••>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:34:17 -0700
Subject: Response to Swindled
From: •••@••.•••

Richard, why do you even lend credence to this crap by passing it 
around? You should know better. The so-called "documentary" has been 
debunked by the scientists interviewed as a piece of sensationalistic 
crap over a week ago. <>

Far from being a professional piece of investigative journalism, it 
was a polemic that was one-sided, anti-educational, and misleading. 
As Carl Wunsch said in his rebuttal, "it never occurred to me that I 
was dealing with people who already had a reputation for distortion 
and exaggeration."

There's hardly a factual piece of information in it, and those few 
that are, such as "the sun drives weather systems", are taken so far 
out of context as to be meaningless.

Are are you doing research on people's gullibility in believing 
anything that allows them to cling to the fantasy that they can 
continue consuming and polluting without disastrous consequences?

Or did you forget to take your red pill this week? :-)

For the Earth...
_dave_(this entire message is composed of recycled electrons)
Natural Systems Solutions
Sustainable lifestyles, organizations, and communities


Hi Dave,

Thanks for your comments. Your views are representative of the most 
of the feedback I received. No, I wasn't testing people's 
gullibility. The documentary SEEMED to make some very challenging 
points, and I wanted to find out what other people thought of it. I'm 
no expert on climate. I do not try to coddle people on this list by 
protecting them from viewpoints. I assume everyone here can think for 
themselves. I find the discussion and thinking that has evolved from 
the posting to be valuable. And it is useful to track disinformation 


Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 06:03:45 +1200
From: "James Samuel" <•••@••.•••>
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: Is global warming a hoax?

Hi Richard,

Like many of the reports that deal with climate change issues, the 
tendency to emotive language and a bias towards one or another 
viewpoint is also prevalent in this film. There is a criticism, both 
subtle and obvious, of people who question the logic of economic 
growth, globalisation and capitalism. There is the use of simplistic 
analogies, an approach which is criticized when used by those who 
believe that human beings have a major impact on climate change.

It seems clear that the world has gone through major climatic cycles 
in the past, and to argue for or against the influence of human 
beings on this process seems more about an argument for or against 
the status quo and further industrialisation of the world.

I sensed an intention in this film to suggest that human beings a 
small insignificant peons who don't (or can't) influence change. This 
is not a new form of propaganda, and it is one that works well for 
those who know they are not powerless but who want to maintain the 
status quo. At individual levels it is hard to see what effect we 
have, but we are not only individuals, we are part of a whole, a 
thing called the human family, which together makes huge changes. 
Together we have cut down 40% of the Amazon rain forest, and this is 
having profound effects on our weather/climate system. There are lots 
of examples and most of you will be able to cite a few more.

After observing an initial reaction in myself, I was willing to open 
up to the information. I watched it and have come to the conclusion 
that there is some truth in it, and a lot of misinformation. If you 
want further reading around this one, here are some links:

James Samuel


Hi James,

Thanks for the links. Here some additional ones that people sent in:



From: Larry Tesler <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Is global warming a hoax?
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:32:26 -0700
To: "Richard K. Moore" <•••@••.•••>

Richard, it is true that warming causes CO2 to be released into the 
atmosphere. One reason is that permafrost melts and organic material 
therein decomposes and releases CO2, with a lag as those scientists 
reported. But it also works the other way around. More greenhouse 
gases (and CO2 is but one of them) cause warming.

These relationships are not simple, and they are imposed on natural 
cycles that can be hard to sort out. But the overall effect of 
burning fossil fuel and raising livestock (methane) the last two 
centuries has been significant warming of the Polar regions with 
recent acceleration to record temperatures.

Anyone who thinks that global warming is not a threat to the earth 
should write their book while lounging on a yacht in the Arctic 
Ocean, in waters that for several millennia have been ice.


From: "Tony Troughton-Smith" <•••@••.•••>
To: "'Richard Moore'" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: RE: Is global warming a hoax?
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:22:43 +0900

Yes, I've seen it, Richard.  I believe those warning about the 
potential impacts of climate change in fact mostly have very little 
to gain from so doing - there is certainly no cashed-up lobby group 
which might be interested in promoting a move AWAY from fossil fuels 
&/or nuclear energy, whereas the converse is demonstrably true.

I'm surprised you don't see this for what it really is: another dirty 
tricks campaign from the very mob who have been honing their 
propaganda skills since the early days of the 20th Century or before 
(as I seem to remember you touched on in Escaping the Matrix, but 
can't now check as my five copies have all been passed on long 
since).  To imagine the bulk of the scientific community engaged in a 
conspiracy to frighten the world for the sake of it (or even to 
ensure their research grants are renewed) simply beggars belief - 
mine at least. 

The pathologically greedy global banksters, on the other hand, along 
with their rapture-anticipating buddies, will probably be quite happy 
for the place to burn provided they've got all the loot by the time 
it happens.

Unfortunately there are a large number of people who will seize the 
opportunity this presents to carry on as normal and pay no heed to 
further warnings as a consequence of seeing this film.  And our kids 
generation may suffer more as a result.



Hi Tony,

Yes, the documentary seems to be a 'dirty tricks', but no, I don't 
think it will have any significant negative effect. Indeed the media 
response prompted by the documentary, as we can see from all the 
links above, will probably make for a net positive effect! Just as me 
mentioning the documentary on the list will probably result in people 
here being even more convinced of the threat of global warming. But 
still more important is that 'responding to global warming' has now 
gone mainstream, ala Gore. As propaganda, the documentary has passed 
its sell-by date. More about this in the next posting.



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