Re: Are you Green?… Don’t try to fly…


Richard Moore

Bcc: usual suspects

From: "Robert Vogel" <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Are you Green?... Don't try to fly...
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:36:11 -0500

Hi Richard,

I posted your note to a Green list and got the
following response:


Robert Vogel put the "Can Greens Fly" e-mail on the
listserve tonight.  It had been previously posted to
the listserve.  I don't object to the double
posting--it would be a truly important story if true. 
However, John Battista posted additional information
about this story in response to the original posting,
and in the interest of accuracy I'm reposting it.  We
Greens must have our facts straight if we're to be
respected.      --Ed


John Battista's posting (posted 1/9/03): Connecticut
Green Party - Part of the GPUS
- tried to verify the
story that Doug Stuber of the North Carolina Green
Party had not been allowed to fly because of his Green
Party affiliation.  I contacted Gray Newman who is a CC
rep from North Carolina.  He informed me that this
story has been floating around North Carolina for some
time and can not be verified.  In addition he outlined
some good reasons to believe that the story is not
true.  Under the circumstances I would not pass this


Dear Bob,

How strange that people seem to be skeptical when they
see the Homeland Security Bill being used for its
intended purpose: frightening and harassing opponents
of the corporate fascist regime.

You might want to forward back to the Greens some of
the following information.  The last piece is from
Stuber himself.


Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:25:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Charles <•••@••.•••>
To: "Richard K. Moore" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re. Unbelievabler and Unbelievabler Amerika.. (fwd)

I forwarded your posting about Doug Strueber to Severo
Ornstein, a friend who runs a small mail list devoted
to political topics.  Severo was one of the creators of
the ARPANET and co-founder of the CPSR.  He posted the
story and then followed it up:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:53:05 -0800
>From: Severo Ornstein <•••@••.•••>
To: Recipient List Suppressed:  ;
Subject: Re. Unbelievabler and Unbelievabler Amerika..

Wondering whether it could really be true, I called
Doug Steuber (the Green guy who was prevented from
travelling) and left a msg. on his answering machine.
He just called back and left a lengthy message on our
machine saying that the story is indeed true. A couple
of minor details are wrong (the Secret Service guys
didn't actually show him the list of "watch"
organizations, but he saw it) but the story is
essentially accurate. The Nation magazine later
verified with the Secret Service that there is such a
list or organizations to be watched and that it
includes Amnesty International, Greenpeace, the Greens,
Earth First, etc.  He says he was indeed loud and
rowdy, but then, who wouldn't be under the

If transmissions to this list suddenly cease, you'll
know they got to me too.


From: •••@••.•••
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:13:11 EST
Subject: Stuber's ordeal
To: •••@••.•••

Dear Charles-

I was detained from flying because of a loud
conversation I had with two men I did not even know on
"day one."  That I was detained the second day due to
things that were either misinterpretted or overblown
the day before is the hard part of my story.

Here is the story:

  "A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Airport"
                "43 hours from hell"

Dear Editor:

I was trying to make an important trip to gather
artists for Henry James Art in Raleigh, NC, USA when I
was told (ticket in hand) that I was not allowed to fly
out that day.

Curiously, I asked "why not" and the answer at Raleigh
Durham Airport (RDU) was that, I had yelled, over three
rows "Bush is as dumb as a rock."  This was part of a
conversation with two African American men I had never
met, and that included talk of how the CIA polluted
downtown America with crack, and how Jerry Falwell used
church coffers to buy planes for "Falwell Aviation."

Of course, those planes were leased to Frank Clinton,
and others, who, against the wishes of congress (which
had banned any more funding for the Contra War in
Nicaragua) used them (lots of them were DC-3s like the
one Hassenfuss got caught in) to run gins to Honduras,
and bags of cocaine back to the US.

In fact, the Manual Noriega case was SUPPOSED to be
tried in Roanoke, VA federal court, but Falwell did not
want folks to find out about his connection to "guns
south and crack north, " and got the venue switched to

Anyway, they ran "national Guard" guns to Honduras
where they were walked across the river to Nicaragua,
in exchange for Cocaine, which was turned into the
crack that, ever since, has decimated urban America.

SO I was denied a flight, but thought I'd come back the
next mooring, really early, switch airlines and fly to
Paris, to catch a train to Prague form there.

Naturally, I went back the next morning, and instead of
paying $670 round trip was forced into a $2,600 "same
day" fare.  I was mad enough about the money, but what
happened in the next 24 hours was mind-boggling.

So, it was 6am and my first flight wasn't due out until
11:45, so I had plenty of time to kill.  At exactly
10:52 am, just before boarding was to begin, I was
approached by Officer Stanley (the same policeman I was
ushered out of the airport y the day before) and he
said he "wanted to talk to me." 

I went with him, but reminded him that no one had said
I could not fly, and that my flight was about to leave.
 (I also knew that I could make the Air France
connection in Atlanta and still make it to Prague in
time, as long as I could catch a Delta flight at
1:10pm, so I wasn't too worried yet.)

The officer took me into a room and questioned me for
one hour. By Noon Stanley introduced me to two
gentlemen I will refer to as Secret Service A and
Secret Service B ( SS-A and SS-B).  Now it's bad enough
that the SS will remind Germans of a very bad group
during World War II, but here is where the story proves
the US is in a "totalitarian capitalist" state of

SS-A and SS-B took full eye-open pictures with a
digital camera.  They then asked me all the details
about my family, where I lived, who I ever knew, what
the Greens are up to, etc. etc. 

At one point I asked if they really believed the Greens
were equal to Al Qaeda.  Here they made an error.  They
showed me a document from the Justice department
(Ashcroft and friends) that actually DOES show the
greens as likely terrorists.  Just as likely as Al
Qaeda members.  Man, I wish I had had a camera to be
able to copy THAT document!

Sure enough we got out of there at about 12:45, but
with enough time to catch the later flight.

Here is where the pig-dogs really made me mad.  They
walked me to the Delta counter and asked that I be
given tickets for the flight so I could make my
connections.  The woman (she is a tall blonde with
short hair and works for Delta at RDU) quickly printed
out tickets so that I could make the flight, and I was
relieved that the SS hadn't stopped me from flying.

I was wrong again.  By the time I was about to be
quickly placed on the flight, officer Stanley ONCE
AGAIN ushered me out the door.  To be fair, he told me
this:  "Just go to Greensboro, where they don't know
you, and be totally quiet about politics, and you can
make it to Europe that way."

I felt like I was being yet again set up by this man,
but I went to Greensboro anyway.

In Greensboro, NC I was told flat out that I could not
fly overseas as soon as my passport was
swiped. Apparently the SS had moved quickly to shut me
down from ANY kind of overseas air travel.  (One
wonders whether Greens throughout the US are now barred
from flying, since our national Co-Chair, Nancy Ogden
had already been denied a flight form Maine to Chicago
eight months ago.)

Not to be denied, I then traveled to Charlotte.  This
is another hour and a half away, so I've been up for 40
hours, with a 1.5 hour drive ahead.  I stocked up on
Dr. Pepper and decided I would not be denied.

Of course, at Charlotte the same thing: "get this
terrorist out of here" was the mode the cops were in.

I then drove three hours home (43 hours trying to catch
a flight) and crashed hard in bed.

It appears that Greens, who have ten key values that
include nonviolence, social justice, etc. are
considered terrorists by the Ashcroft led Justice

I had always speculated that capitalism had gone too
far.  Now I know for sure.


Doug Stuber


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