-------------------------------------------------------- From: <•••@••.•••> To: •••@••.••• Subject: re: Zen of Transformation: some new thoughts Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:59:16 +0000 X-Originating-IP: 159.134.245.136 Organization: Eircom Net (http://www.eircom.net/) Hi Richard, > But where will we find an activist in this particular movement? Where is there someone planning or carrying out actions aimed at building a mass movement thread by means of community-problem solving sessions? Yes -- who is such an activist? I don't personally know anyone using DF or equivalent. I have had ideas and notions to be more active at some stage myself, but it hasn't happened yet. It still might (even though to date I've been satisfied to contribute only to the Theory thread.) In order to move this on another step, is there a certain type of community problem, or a list of community problems that would be relevant here? In your words, we are interested in real community problems which are potentially solvable by the community. I mentioned before the main everyday problems which I think exist (Time, Costs of living, Fears, Freedom, Lack of energy..), to which you added the all important -- POWER. So, what problems do local communities have the POWER to solve? If we all got together and decided the Bush fascists were not in our interests what could we do about it? (even if one lived in USA) If we identify something that people can change, then people will be interested. If a successful outcome results then people will begin to be really motivated, because what they are ultimately contributing to is not the solving of a problem, but the means to solve all problems. The people are out there, I'm convinced of it. Have we any issue with which to attract them? Do ordinary people retain any power over any area of their lives? Tony Oí Reilly Cork. ----------- Dear Tony, You raise one of the central issues: "What problems do local communities have the POWER to solve?" There are so many problems that are imposed onto communities from the outside, and which they can do little about. For example, if some corporation decides to close down a plant, there is little the community can do to solve that problem -- to prevent the loss of employment. Whenever I try to answer your question, I think of things like traffic, parking, pedestrianization, public transit, facilities for teenagers, and land-development policies. Those seem like things that could be much improved and that in many cases are within the power of the community to do something about -- if one could achieve creative consensus among ordinary citizens, shop owners, and the local political establishment. regards, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:57:54 -0400 To: •••@••.••• From: earthsea <•••@••.•••> Subject: re: Zen of Transformation: some new thoughts dear richard, it just occured to me that "we" have not mentioned the situation for substantial social change vis a vis the existing parallel social system called organized crime (OC). As an organism riding on and entwined in whatever mainstream there is, OC tends to want to maintain the staus quo, nes pas? If so, the size and scope of OC needs to be taken into strategic account. Or more realistically, because of the probable existing size & scope of OC, it needs to be taken into strategic account. also because OC is supremely flexible we probably should assume it will continue to prey on whatever new mainstream might come about and therefore must take its continuing influence into account. does the "new order" see OC as a problem to be solved or as an accountable "tax on the system"? david cameron ------------ Dear David, Organized crime is an example of a hierarchy, one of many that dominate our societies today. In some sense, a criminal organization is simply a special case of a corporation. It is a corporation that doesn't bother with a formal charter, doesn't register its existence with the government, and which gives itself the freedom to violate the law with a bit more flagrance (but on a smaller scale) than the legal variety of corporation. In its own way organized crime has employment policies, training programs, profit objectives, and even self-imposed limits and rules on its 'corporate' behavior. If we can end corporate power generally, and unravel the other various hierarchies of elite power, I don't see why the mafia hierarchies would uniquely survive. Indeed, the mafia hierarchies are linked into the other hierarchies, and unravelling them all may inherently be a single project. They are all part of a single web / matrix that makes up our prison. regards, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 21:30:17 -0800 To: •••@••.••• From: Rosa Zubizarreta <•••@••.•••> Subject: re: Zen of Transformation: some new thoughts Hi Richard, hope you are well... i am enjoying your writing, as always... one thought in response to the following... > rkm to Tony O'Reilly: You suggest a meeting of the theorists and the activists. Let's assume you're talking about a meeting somewhere in the region between Cork and Wexford. We can count ourselves as two available theorists and I imagine we will think of a few others. But where will we find an activist in this particular movement? Where is there someone planning or carrying out actions aimed at building a mass movement thread by means of community-problem solving sessions? Either some of us theorists must become activists, or we need to find some activists who find these ideas inspiring and motivating. Any suggestions? one model for networking along these lines here in the US, if you've not seen it already, is Sandy Heierbacher's National Coalition for Dialogue and Deliberation... the website is http://www.thataway.org... maybe there are folks there who have links with dialogue stuff internationally??/ with all best wishes, Rosa ------- Dear Rosa, Thanks for the link. I took a look and wrote a note to Sandy, with a copy to you and Tom. I tried to explain the relationship between my work and hers, but as usual that turned out to take more space than I wished. I hope she has time to read it and that she has some interest. We'll see. thanks for staying touch, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharon Rose" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: Zen of Transformation: some new thoughts Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 09:26:53 -0800 dear rkm, have you been following the work of moveon.org, and also the truemajority, in the US? here is an exerpt of an interview of Sen. Byrd. in it he expresses some of the same opinions that i did [in a separate message]. there are people in our country who are working hard to rouse Americans to think, read, speak, vote, etc. GRASSROOTS INTERVIEW: U.S. SENATOR BYRD [excerpt only - rkm] "There is a power which can serve as a check against abuses by a government or by government officials and that power is the power of the informed citizen -- one who has read enough, who understands enough, who has developed a base of knowledge against which to judge truth or falsehood. Participation in the great debates of our time must not be relegated to the power elites in Washington. An informed citizenry has to participate, ask questions, and demand answers and accountability to make a country like ours work." ---------------- Dear Sharon, I admire folks who contribute their energy to trying to make a difference. I too try to make a difference, and we each contribute in those ways we believe have the most hope of success. Out of solidarity, I wish I could support the kind of activism recommended by you and Sen. Byrd. But my reading of history, and my observation of decades of US politics, does not allow me to hold out much hope for making a difference by means of the electoral system. In such matters I believe it is important to speak truth as one sees it. The kind of energy you see with moveon and truemajority, and the encouragement that gives to some politicians -- that is a positive thing, no question about that. But the fact is that there have been many times in US history when much stronger movements arose, movements with mass participation, good organization, and which achieved some degree of real political influence. The Agrarian Populists, c. 1900, had something like 20,000 full time people who travelled around giving speeches and keeping the network going among the local organizations / affiliates. They came close to getting their Presidential candidate onto the slate of one of the major parties. There have been many other seriously major grassroots uprisings, and many of them achieved significant reforms. As a result of the 60s movements, for example, we got the EPA, the Freedom of Information Act, the Civil Rights Act, the resignation of a President, and a number of progressive decisions by the Supreme Court. But in each case, following whatever movement successes, political power remained in the hands of an elite Establishment community. The Establishment offered policy concessions in order to placate the movements, but it did not give up its hold on the reins of power. Indeed, the granting of concessions served as a means of maintaining Establishment power. A movement achieves success, gets its reforms, and then typically runs out of steam. Meanwhile the Establishment goes into damage-control mode. Reforms are watered down, enforcement is subverted, loopholes are introduced, etc. And then when the political climate changes, the reforms can be undone entirely. Since the beginning of the Reagan era, and greatly accelerated under GW Bush, we've seen centuries of reform undone -- going right back to the Bill of Rights itself. This has been the universal historical pattern, and not only in the USA and the UK. Unless we want to repeat history, we need to learn from it. We need to understand how an elite Establishment is able to stay in power, riding over the ripples of changing Administrations and movement uprisings. If our initiatives are to have lasting results, they must be aimed at somehow overcoming this elite monopoly on political decision making. Until that happens we are only bargaining for concessions from "the one who has power", the way a youth might bargain for some money for a night out or a new mobile phone. As long as there is "someone who has power" then we remain at the mercy of their interests and their schemes, schemes which are becoming at the moment increasingly diabolical. best regards, rkm -- ============================================================ "...the Patriot Act followed 9-11 as smoothly as the suspension of the Weimar constitution followed the Reichstag fire." - Srdja Trifkovic There is not a problem with the system. The system is the problem. Faith in humanity, not gods, ideologies, or programs. _____________________________ cyberjournal home page: http://cyberjournal.org "Zen of Global Transformation" home page: http://www.QuayLargo.com/Transformation/ QuayLargo discussion forum: http://www.QuayLargo.com/Transformation/ShowChat/?ScreenName=ShowThreads cj list archives: http://cyberjournal.org/cj/show_archives/?lists=cj newslog list archives: http://cyberjournal.org/cj/show_archives/?lists=newslog 'Truthout' excellent news source: http://www.truthout.org subscribe addresses for cj list: •••@••.••• •••@••.••• ============================================================
