humour: Rumsfeld Meets Saddam


Richard Moore


Below is an alleged transcript of an alleged meeting between
Rumsfeld and Saddam.

If it had been a bit more artfully crafted, I might have gone for
it. Certainly, Rumsfeld has met with Saddam before, to sell
him arms - there's no ethical issue here, as far as Rumsfeld
is concerned. (And the CIA put Saddam into power in the first
place, etc. etc.)

But this transcript is not credible. For one thing, it's
pretty clear to me that both sides of the conversation were
written by the same author, as a kind of Platonic / Socratic

Nonetheless it's a gas to read!


From: "Westaway" <•••@••.•••>
To: "Westaway" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Rumsfeld Meets Saddam: Transcript of Conversation
Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 10:07:58 -0700
Centre for Research on Globalisation
Centre de recherche sur la mondialisation

Rumsfeld Meets Saddam: Transcript of Conversation 3 May 2005 9 May 2005
The URL of this article is:


The Egyptian Magazine published the transcript of an alleged meeting in
prison between Saddam Hussein and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

The Egyptian magazine al-Usbu', May 2, 2005, published the text of a
conversation between Saddam Hussein and US Defense Secretary Donald
Rumsfeld, which is said to have taken place on Rumsfeld's trip to Baghdad in
late April. Rumsfeld, according to the al Usbu' report, visited Saddam
Hussein in prison. Al-Usbu' reports that "informed political sources had
disclosed the details of the meeting," of which we provide the transcript,
translated from the Arabic.

The Report of the Rumsfeld-Hussein meeting was also published in a number of
Arabic language news media as well in French by The Algerian newspaper
Liberté. ( Rumsfeld l'a rencontré lors de son récent séjour en Irak Saddam
rejette l'offre Américaine par Abdelkamel K)

The Pentagon in an official statement has denied the Rumsfeld-Hussein

"The Al Quds news report out of London that Secretary Rumsfeld recently met
with Saddam Hussein is not only false but the allegation that he negotiated
with Saddam is absolutely ludicrous, "


Translated by Muhammad Abu Nasr

Al-Usbu' reports that the meeting took place after an
escalation of Iraqi Resistance attacks against US occupation
forces and their allies and stooges in Iraq. The sources
indicated that the US had lost more than 1,600 men killed and
wounded in the last three months, only a fraction of which
they officially admitted.

The available information indicates that US President George
W. Bush held a meeting with his staff in which they discussed
ways to stop the Resistance violence in Iraq. In order to save
us lives and stop the continued deterioration of relations
between the US and its allies and other countries that sent
forces to occupied Iraq. The US leadership arrived at a
decision to offer to release the Iraqi President Saddam
Hussein and take him to his preferred place of exile outside
Iraq in return for his appearing on television to demand that
the Iraqi Resistance halt its armed operations and form a
political party to take part in the political process set up
by the US occupation forces in Iraq.

Bush entrusted his Secretary of State, Donald Rumsfeld, with
the task of going to Iraq immediately to urge the quick
formation of a new Iraqi puppet "government" and to meet with
the Iraqi "leaders" who have emerged from the 30 January
"election" results held under the threat of US weapons in
occupied Iraq. At the same time, however, Rumsfeld was to meet
with Iraqi President Saddam Hussein in his American prison
near Saddam International Airport west of Baghdad.

The Saddam Hussein-Rumsfeld meeting reportedly lasted nearly
an hour and took place in the presence of the commander of US
occupation forces in Iraq.

Rumsfeld followed up on his meeting by sending a report to
President Bush in which he enclosed minutes of his meeting
with the Iraqi President and offered outlines for how the US
should deal with future developments in Iraq. He is said to
have stressed the need for pursuing various ways to hold
political dialogue with the Resistance and with Iraqi
President Saddam Hussein.

In his report,al-Usbu' said, Rumsfeld emphasized that the
situation in Iraq was increasingly dangerous. He said that the
Arab Resistance looked like an organized army in the making
and that it was training well and had been provided with
important support in weapons and other material back up.
Rumsfeld said that the number of Resistance fighters in Iraq
had now reached 400,000 active fighters and that around them
were more than five million people providing the Resistance
with support.

Rumsfeld said that what took place in al-Fallujah had a
negative impact on the security situation and that the
Resistnace had succeeded in reaping the fruits of the "war on
terror" being waged by the united states to use them for its
benefit. He said that Iraqi youths were now vying with one
another in volunteering to fight in the ranks of the

Rumsfeld confirmed that the names of many of the Resistance
organizations that declare themselves here and there are
nothing but fronts for organizations of the Arab Baath Party
under the leadership currently of Izzat Ibrahim ad-Duri, the
Vice President of Iraq.

Rumsfeld expressed the expectation that the situation would
become much more difficult in the coming period since the pace
of armed operations against the US forces had greatly
accelerated, and now stands at more than 200 attacks every
day, making dozens of casualties in the "coalition" and puppet
"national guard" ranks likely.

Rumsfeld said that he had reviewed numerous American and Iraqi
reports that reveal a deterioration in the security situation
in Iraq and a fall in the morale level of the troops as
casualties and material losses increase.

Rumsfeld indicated that there have also been serious material
losses in US ranks, and that the Americans are now loosing an
average of at least 30 military vehicles every week, something
that is continually depleting American power.

Rumsfeld also disclosed that the Resistance had just recently
seized stockpiles of advanced American weaponry including
artillery and rocket launchers as well as anti-aircraft
launchers and that the US command expressed the fear that
these arms would soon have their effect in escalating the
movements of violence and Resistance operations.

At the end of his report, al-Usbu' reports, Rumsfeld urged the
continuation of the dialogue with Saddam Hussein and his
supporters until they can arrive at a formula for bringing
about a temporary truce to facilitate a discussion of both
sides' proposals.

Al-Usbu' obtained the minutes of the conversation between
Saddam Hussein and Donald Rumsfeld from a reliable American


Transcript of the meeting between President Saddam Hussein and
US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld:

AT the beginning of the meeting President Saddam appeared
extremely calm, perhaps he was surprised that his visitor was
Rumsfeld, but he did not show any nervous tension. Rumsfeld
began the discussion:

Rumsfeld: I have come to meet you to talk with out about the
situation in Iraq. We have been in communication with some of
your supporters inside and outside Iraq and they advised us to
listen to you.

Saddam Hussein: And what is it that you want? Your forces have
occupied the territory of noble Iraq; you brought down the
ruling regime without any legal basis; you attacked the
sovereignty of an independent, free, sovereign country; and
you committed crimes that history will record astestimony
against your bloodstained civilization. So what more do you
want after all that?

Rumsfeld: (trying to conceal his anger): there no call for
going into the past. I've come specially to present you a
clear and specific offer and I want to hear from you a clear
and specific answer.

Saddam Hussein (mockingly): I suppose you've come to apologize
and return authority to the Iraqis.

Rumsfeld: We have nothing to apologize for. You were a danger
to your neighbors. You were trying to acquire weapons of mass
destruction, and you practiced dictatorship over your people.
So it was natural for us to extend our hands to help the
people of Iraq to rid themselves ofthe perils they faced for
more than thirty years.

Saddam Hussein: I know that you're ignorant of history and I
know that your president is no less ignorant. But it seems
that you've been telling lies for so long that you have come
to believe them yourselves. If you mean by "our neighbors" the
Zionist Entity, then, yes, we really were posing a danger to
it and preparing to liberate our plundered land in Palestine.
This is the trust of every Arab person, not just Iraqis, for
that land is Arab and its people are Arab and the Zionists
have done nothing but occupy the land. They came to us from
every corner of the world with your help and that of the old
colonial powers. But if you mean Kuwait, I would like to ask
you: Have you withdrawn from Kuwait or not?

Rumsfeld: These are security issues. Besides, between us and
Kuwait and the other Gulf States there are security
agreements. We came in based on their request to defend them
from your threats.

Saddam Hussein: Isn't it funny to entrust the wolf to guard
the sheep? The Kuwaiti people are an Arab people, and Kuwait
is Iraqi territory. So I would ask you to go and read up on
history well, except that I am sure that you will never be
able to grasp it.

Rumsfeld: Enough of this chatter. I am offering you . . .

Saddam Hussein (cuts him off): Before you offer me your rotten
goods, I want to ask you: did you find any weapons of mass
destruction or not?

Rumsfeld (confused): we haven't found any so far. But we
definitely will find them one day. Do you deny that you had
the intention of making a nuclear bomb?

Saddam Hussein: We had no weapons of mass destruction since
1991. We were truthful when we spoke to the International
Inspection Team and we were truthful in our letters toKofi
Annan. And you knew those facts, but you were looking for any
false excuse to occupy Iraq and overthrow the legal

Rumsfeld: The Iraqis greeted us happily and welcomed us and
the reason was the bloody practices of your regime for all the
years in which you ruled Iraq.

Saddam Hussein: I ask you, Mr. Rumsfeld . . . Enough lying.
You are the ones who opened up cascades of blood on the land
of Iraq. You plotted against us and you came with some
traitors to take over rule of the great land of Iraq.

Rumsfeld: The ones you call traitors were chosen as their
leaders by the Iraqi people by democratic means and clean
elections, such as never took place while you ruled the

Saddam Hussein: I knew that you came with a band of traitors
with[Jalal] at-Talibaniin their front ranks (laughs
mockingly). Great Iraq being ruled by at-Talibani
andal-Ja'fari, isn't that ridiculous? And what kind of
elections are you talking about. Is it possible to hold free
elections, as you call them, when our country is occupied? Mr.
Rumsfeld, we have learned from history that occupiers come
only with their lackeys and agents, then you want after all
that to convince me that the people of Iraq are enjoying
freedom and democracy? You must really be delirious.

Rumsfeld (trying very hard to control his anger): You are in
isolation and don't know the facts of what is going on
outside. The Iraqi people have been freed from your
oppression. If they saw you or any of you men in the street,
they would destroy you!!

Saddam Hussein: And I bet you that if you were able to
announce where you are in Iraq, if the Iraqi Resistance
learned where you were, you wouldn't be able to get out alive.
I want to pass on some advice that you must convey to your
stupid president: you must tell him to save what remains of
his troops. Death is stalking them in every place and history
will not forgive him.

Rumsfeld: I came to talk with you about the 'terrorist'
operations that your men are inciting and carrying out. Your
men recently carried out a foul attack against Abu Ghurayb
prison where more than 50 Americans were killed or wounded,
and they killed a number of those in custody on various
charges as well. Your men are getting help from terrorists
from every corner of the world and they are threatening the
democratic experiment in Iraq.

Saddam Hussein: What exactly is it that you want?

Rumsfeld: I'm making you one offer and that is that you will
be released and can chose for yourself a place of exile
freely, in any country you like, on condition that you go on
television and issue a condemnation of terrorism and order
your men to stop these acts.

Saddam Hussein: Have you obtained the agreement of your
president to this offer?

Rumsfeld: Yes, this offer has been agreed on in a meeting in
which the President, Vice President, Secretary of State, and
Chief of Intelligence took part. AndI have been authorized to
inform you of this offer.

Saddam Hussein: It's a trifling offer.

Rumsfeld (with a sigh): We're also ready to bring elements
close to you into the government.

Saddam Hussein: And what else?

Rumsfeld: You will be given generous financial assistance and
security protection for you and your family in the country of
your choice.

Saddam Hussein: Do you want to hear my conditions?

Rumsfeld: I would love to.

Saddam Hussein (with an air of superciliousness and
superiority) I want first from you that you set a time table
for your withdrawal from Iraq and that your government commit
itself to it before the world and that you begin the
withdrawal immediately.

Secondly, I ask you to release immediately all the Iraqi and
Arab prisoners in the prisons you have set up or in which you
have taken the freedom of tens of thousands of honorable
people of Iraq. Thirdly, I ask from you to pledge to grant
full compensation for the material losses that afflicted the
Iraqi people as a result of your aggression against our
country since the Mother of Battles in 1991 and until today.
And I accept the assistance of an Arab and International
Committee in estimating the extent of those losses.

Fourth, I ask that you return the money that you and your men
plundered from the treasuries of Iraq, and its oil, in
particular that criminal[L. Paul] Bremerand his gang of
traitors and renegades.

Fifth, the return of the artifacts that you stole and gave to
the archaeological artifact mafia. These are treasures that
are beyond all the monetary value in the world, because they
carry the history of Iraq and its civilization. It's true that
you don't have any civilization or history and that the
lifespan of your country is no more than a few hundred years,
but all that must not serve to justify your theft and your
hatred for the civilization of Iraq and the wealth of Iraq.

And sixth, you must hand over the weapons of mass destruction
if you have found any and return to us the lives of all the
martyrs whose lives you took and to return the honor of the
noble women of Iraq whom you dishonored.

Rumsfeld: Is this some kind of joke?

Saddam Hussein: No! This is the bitter reality. . . which you
know, Mr. Rumsfeld. You have committed the greatest crime in
history against a peaceful Arab country. We met together in
the 1980s. Do you remember your offers?

Rumsfeld: Enough of the past. We are reassessing our positions
towards you and towards a number of powers that have been
hostile to us in the past. We have decided to hold dialogue
with moderate Islamicists and we have no objection to their
coming to power through the ballot box. More important than
that we have decided to open channels for dialogue with
'terrorist' organizations like Hamas, the Islamic Jihad, and
Hizbollah, which is pro-Iranian, and also with other
fundamentalist organizations in the whole world. We even have
a plan for contacting the Taliban movement in Afghanistan to
study the possibility of their participation in power, in
exchange for their giving up arms.

Saddam Hussein: So you have begun to rethink your erroneous

Rumsfeld: It is a natural development of events. We are
striving to spread democracy in all countries and movements
subject to tyranny.

Saddam Hussein: May you prosper if you are truthful. I know
your real aim, though. If you were really truthful, then you
and your allies must begin immediately by withdrawing from
Iraq. And you would also have to depart from your position of
support for 'Israel'. But I know that your president is
stubborn and arrogant and is not telling the truth.

Rumsfeld: He is a democratically elected president, not a
bloody ruler like you.

Saddam Hussein: Terror is your product and lying is your

Rumsfeld: This offer is a historic opportunity for you. You
will be released and we will consult with you in everything
related to the running of Iraq. If you refuse this offer, the
opportunity will not be fulfilled.

Saddam Hussein: I am not looking for opportunities. I am not
looking for a way to save my neck from the gallows that you
have set up for all of Iraq. If I wanted that I would have
accepted the Russian offer and saved my sons and grandson from
martyrdom. I don't know what has become ofmy family and my
daughters and grandchildren. But believe me I am concerned
with every Iraqi citizen and the future of great Iraq more
than I am concerned with myself and my family.

Through your men, you previously made an offer that if I
declare that weapons of mass destruction were smuggled to
Syria, you said that in return you would release me. I
rejected that then and I reject it again now.

Rumsfeld: I don't want a rejection from you. I want you to
think about it. We are continuing our reassessment of our
stances at the present time. We want to stop the bloodshed on
both sides. And therefore we have made this offer out of the
logic of power and not the logic of weakness.

We asked Jalal at-Talibani to make a statement denying any
intention of executing you as a sign of good intentions on our
part. We are ready to reassess our whole position on the
political arrangement in Iraq as a whole and to discuss this
matter with you and with your men.

Saddam Hussein: Are you ready to withdraw or not?

Rumsfeld: We can possibly discuss redeployment. Our forces
have prepared bases for a long stay. We can possibly withdraw
from streets and cities, but we will remain in the bases for
some time.

Saddam Hussein: then you want a new stooge to add to that line
of stooges. No Mr. Rumsfeld. Don't forget that you are talking
with Saddam Hussein the President of the Republic of Iraq.

Rumsfeld: But you lost power.

Saddam Hussein: I have nothing left but honor and honor cannot
be bought and sold.

Rumsfeld: But life is priceless.

Saddam Hussein: There is no value to life without honor. You
robbed Iraq of its honor when you trampled on its land and we
will regain our honor whether Saddam Hussein remains or dies a

Rumsfeld: Your supporters with whom we have been discussing
told us that you were the first and last decision maker. Were
they expecting this reaction from you?

Saddam Hussein: Definitely, they know that Saddam Hussein
cannot back away at the expense of his homeland and honor.

Rumsfeld: History will hold you responsible for the blood that
is being shed in Iraq.

Saddam Hussein: Rather history will judge you for your crimes.
I warned you before, saying that you would commit suicide on
the walls of Baghdad. And here you are paying the price. I
want you to go to London and read the records of the British
Foreign Office and learn something aboutthe struggle of the
Iraqi people against your British friends who are now
repeating their mistakes and fighting with you. The Iraqi
people are a stubborn people who do not fear death. The
Resistance is stronger than you imagine. So I promise you that
you will have even more.

Translated by Muhammad Abu Nasr


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