-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 10:49:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Diana Skipworth <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: newslog: 16 Apr - 22 Apr To: •••@••.••• Dear Richard, Re: 4/22/07 "Crisis...Radicalized Citizenry" (http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/?id=2421&lists=newslog) To the question of why there is no rioting in the streets of America: go to <http://www.Prisonplanet.com> when you have some time. It has been my theory for some years now: the people of the United States lost their beloved republic on 11/22/1963 with the murder of JFK in front of millions of people. The proof to this loss; the official story with Oswald still stands and even more, Bobby Kennedy was removed as well as MLK. I am also a believer in the possibility of a secret government in force for which nobody has ever voted. These unseen, invisibly-cloaked criminals, are beginning to make mistakes, most of which: They underestimate the American People. I am a middle-aged mom who is also an Activist. It may seem nothing is happening in America; yet as one of many who has participated in civil activities since 2002, I wish to inform you there is a growing tide of disgust rising from the flood of watered-down freedoms. I would also predict with the latest US Atty scandal, there may be a tsunami, yet! As John Adams said: "Revolution was in the hearts and minds of the people." And, how long did it take to finally convince the Colonists to rebuke their powerful King George? Does anyone know the answer? The day finally dawned when it was enough for them. Would anyone agree with me: most of the crimes listed within The Declaration of Independence, have already come true Presently? Haven't we been burdened enough with this latest incarnation of HRH King George? For the great majority of Americans that I know, the answer is a resounding, "YES!" Regards, Diana Skipworth -------- Hi Diana, Thanks for your observations. As regards the elimination of the Kennedy's, don't forget John Jr., whose death was no less mysterious and convenient (to GW Bush's campaign), but which received less attention. As regards convincing the Colonists to rebuke King George, much of the credit goes to Thomas Paine, whose "Common Sense" came out early in 1776 and broke all previous publishing records for number of copies sold. As regards the Declaration of Independence, as you indicate, it applies as much now as it did in 1776. The US can be seen as a spin-off of the British Empire, controlled by the banking-capitalist elite from the beginning, having shed the constraints of the Crown and the Church. cheers, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:53:52 -0700 From: marc bombois <•••@••.•••> Subject: wee essay To: "Richard K. Moore" <•••@••.•••> There seems to be no doubt that climate change is happening. The question is, what are we going to do about it? Many courses of action have been proposed, perhaps most famously by Al Gore in his documentary "An Inconvenient Truth". Unfortunately, Al Gore infamously avoids pointing the finger at the corporate perpetrators of global pollution, never mentions the culpability of unfettered capitalism where "shareholder value" and profit are all that matter, planet be damned. And never in the debate that rages around this issue is the root cause of environmental degradation ever mentioned: the financial system. The financial system demands and drives the "growth" imperative which is laying waste to our mother Earth while transferring our public wealth into private pockets. The debt-based money and banking system is controlled by an elite few whose greed knows no bounds and whose thirst for absolute power now threatens our planet and indeed our very lives. Public ignorance of the financial system has resulted in this dangerous concentration of power. We can make all the personal lifestyle changes we want, and I too have made many, but they are futile as long as the elite-controlled money system remains in place. So the debate around climate change is diversionary and peripheral. The question should really be, how do we put a stop to the elite's agenda? Imagine if instead of being fascinated by Al Gore's traveling picture show, we clamoured to learn about how the elite control our lives via a clever little scam called banking? How elite control of the media diverts our attention away from the truth? How the elite's financial system manufactures and guarantees poverty, hunger, homelessness, and yes, environmental degradation? Things would be very different very soon. But until that happens, more of the same. While people want to live their lives in peace and prosperity and in a clean environment, it's obvious that the elite have the opposite in mind and they must be stopped. If we can do that, then we can address the challenge of climate change intelligently and cooperatively, peacefully and sustainably. We simply cannot expect the warmongering elite to do it when they are the perpetrators. We must point the finger at the core of our troubles: the elite and their brutal money system. Marc Bombois Vice-president, Canadian Action Party --------- Hi Marc, Thanks, very good points. I've reviewed the documentary you gave me, "Money as Debt". Everyone should see it! We'll be showing this at our local Documentary Society. It can be viewed on Google: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279 It can also be ordered as a DVD: http://www.moneyasdebt.net/ One of the film's observations is that the ultimate source of value for our money is the 'promise to pay' of those who borrow from banks. That is, when we sign a mortgage, we bring that much money-value into existence. That may sound paradoxical, and the value of the film is that it makes this notion understandable, with the help of charming cartoon fables. In some sense then, our money can be said to be 'trust based' (trust that repayments will be made). Ironically, community transactions can also be based on trust, but without banks as intermediaries. Perhaps an understanding that our current system is based on trust, and not gold, might give us more courage to create our own exchange systems. cheers, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff Jewell" <•••@••.•••> To: "'Richard Moore'" <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: FW: The global-warming discussion: what are the lessons? Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:59:34 -0700 Dear Richard, Thanks for the compliments [in a private dialog -rkm], which mean a great deal to me because I have such high admiration of the brilliance of both your analysis and capacity to explain complex concepts with such clarity and power. Of course there are some differences in our perceptions and conclusions, but we both try to explore these with respect and open-mindedness. I agree that the potential exists for modern technology to better serve both people and the planet. Primarily this requires corporate control over technological development and deployment to be broken, or closely regulated-at least by taking away the fundamentally perverse but today virtually essential business strategy of externalizing costs, which effectively commands irresponsible social and environmental decisions. This reminds me of Jonathan Larson, who you may know, whose main concept is something he calls Elegant Technology. It's been many years since I was in touch with him (I met him on the web around the same time I discovered you), and it's probably worth checking out where he's at: <http://www.elegant-technology.com/> Poor Cuba has suffered so much under American sanctions, which hopefully will be ended soon-but hopefully not with subjugation to pre-Castro conditions. Under severe imposed deprivations, Cubans have done remarkably well and have shown the world that happiness and good health can be achieved very well (and by many metrics even better than in the USA) without current technology and more advanced development. But there's not much chance that people in any advanced nation would voluntarily accept major hardships or decline in standard of living-nor should they need to. Progress should be possible to maintain long-term, with continual advancement in standards of living everywhere, by putting the plutocrats on a wealth-diet and cleaning up our act through intelligent and responsible use of technology and development. Cheers to you, ŠJeff -------- Hi Jeff, I think you underestimate somewhat the changes needed -- both political and economic -- to become sustainable. It will not be possible to reduce the power of corporations without changing our whole system of governance. It will not be possible to achieve sustainability while we continue to use cars and highways as our primary transport. The question of "accepting major hardships" is very context dependent. If, as many expect, a global economic collapse is approaching, then our understanding of the relationship between 'hardship' and 'change' would be quite different. Also, if we succeed in creating democratic societies, then we would have responsibility for our economy, and not just be consumers. With responsibility, we would have a different understanding of the relationship between 'hardship' and 'sustainability', and a different understanding of 'progress'. Personally, I wouldn't consider it a hardship if we moved toward a society not dependent on automobiles, air travel, and long-distance imports. How many of our 'benefits' are illusory, 'manufactured needs'? rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:01:51 -0500 To: •••@••.••• From: Cameron McLaughlin <•••@••.•••> Subject: re: Wexford Documentary Society I recommend a two-part series by David Suzuki on the Cuban organic agricultural revolution which was recently shown on Canadian television. I have a copy from a member of a New York community gardening list by way of a Canadian friend who taped it for us, but I don't know about whether you might run afoul of the copyright laws by making further copies for distribution. It depends on what you plan to do with it. Maybe you could contact CBC about whether it is available through them for noncommercial use. You might contact •••@••.••• to see whether he would copy it for you for a small fee. He was kind enough to copy and send it to me for personal use. My own copy has been lent out. I've seen several amazing 9-11 short films lately. If you could post a list of what you already have, maybe I have something to add. I saw most but not all on YouTube. The ones at Google were of course spiked and removed within days. Cameron McLaughlin -------------------------------------------------------- Hi Cameron, Our 'Documentary Society' is strictly non profit and small scale. I don't think copyright is a big issue. In most cases I've been buying DVDs at full price; if I get a few copies as well I don't see any great harm. I can't deal with tapes though, it has to be DVD. Youtube and Google are not very useful to us because of the low-resolution of the videos. DVDs are what we need. I encourage everyone to please let me know what DVDs you can recommend or that you might be able to copy. cheers, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Bell" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••>, <•••@••.•••> Cc: <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: dialog re: What are the lessons? Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:47:38 -0700 Here's my latest. Please share far and wide. AN OPEN LETTER TO EVERYONE, ESPECIALLY OUR YOUTH, THE WORLD'S WEALTHY AND FUTURE GENERATIONS, From: Jim Bell, Ecological Designer http://www.jimbell.com, •••@••.•••, http://www.myspace.com/jimbellelsi, (619) 758 9020 TO EVERYONE, We have to get right with each other and with our planet's life-support system. If we don't do this soon, our planet's life support system will fail in some fundamental way. Global warming has caught our attention of late, but we are harming our planet's life-support system on so many levels, there are plenty of ways we may trigger a serious life-support system failure if global warming doesn't do it. Whatever the tipping point -- if from a single cause or a combination of causes -- a serious life-support system failure will be hurtful to everyone and all life. And if serious enough, cause the extinction of the human family and most of the other life forms that share this planet with us. As I write this I look around at my life. While I'm far from living a completely life-support sustaining life, I've come a long way from the person who rationalized that I was creating jobs when I threw trash out of my car or on the ground. Now I pick up other people's trash, recycle everything I can, drive as little as possible in a 1989 Geo Metro still getting 40 mpg and I'm vegan. But more important than my personal journey to live more consciously, is my work to create a world where we can all live and make decent livings in ways that protect human health and the health of the only life-support system we have; a world easily and completely powered by renewable energy; a world where everything is designed to be easily recycled and harmless to human and life-support system health. TO OUR YOUNG, First, I want to apologize for all the world's problems my generation and those before us are leaving you to solve. But that's the past and we can't do anything about it now. What I've been doing since I realized that the human family is destroying its life-support system and what I recommend you do, is to learn as much as you can, as fast as you can, about how our planet's life-support system works. Then use that knowledge to create life-support sustaining economies and ways of life wherever we live and, ultimately, planet-wide. If you have access to the web you can find my work on this subject at http://www.jimbell.com. Bottom line, I'm motivated to help you develop a sustainable future wherever you live on our planet. The source of my motivation is that the more conscious I've become, the more I care about people and feel connected to them. I especially feel connected to young people and future generations. I have also come to care about the process of consciousness becoming as it is manifesting in us as individuals and in the human family as a whole. A serious life-support system collapse would certainly set the process of the human family becoming more conscious back, if not end it all together. The goal of my life is to help you avoid such calamities so please feel free to call on me for help in gaining the knowledge you need to create a life-support sustaining future. The human family has come so far. Why blow it now by not paying attention to life-support system health? Especially considering it will be better for us economically to develop life-support sustaining economies than to stay with the status quo. Additionally, developing sustainable economies will result in communities, regions, states and countries becoming renewable energy, water and food self-sufficient, thus insuring that these essentials will be available locally no matter what happens to the supply and price of these essentials in national and global markets. If we use our minds and follow our hearts to get ourselves past the rough spot we are going through now, there will be no limit to what the human family may accomplish and where in the universe we may go. If we don't get past it we will certainly lose a lot of ground and may even be stopped in our tracks as in extinct. TO THE WORLD'S WEALTHY, While everyone needs to help create a prosperous and life-support sustaining future, people with wealth are in the unique position to accelerate the process. Many wealthy people donate money to improve the common good. Bill and Melinda Gates, and through them, Warren Buffett are the latest notables in a long line of philanthropists who've donated money to improve the public good. Up to now, the lion's share of Gates Foundation help has gone to improving world health with a focus on children and AIDS -- and education, with a focus on high schools. While this help is good and needed, we have to realize that to sustain the gains we make on these levels, we must develop life-support sustaining economies and ways of life wherever people live and ultimately planet wide. If we do, efforts to improve public health and education will be sustained. If we don't, any gains we achieve in health and education or on similar fronts -- will not long stand. This is where I come in. I know how to gracefully transform non-sustainable economies into prosperous economies that are completely life-support sustaining. I've published two books on the subject and both books are available free on my web site at http://www.jimbell.com. I suggest you start by clicking on "Jim's New Book." The book's title is Creating a Sustainable Economy and Future On Our Planet - The San Diego/Tijuana Region - A Case Study. Although the book focuses on the San Diego/Tijuana region where I live, the design principles behind the economic plan the book develops can be applied to create life-support sustaining economies anywhere on our planet. What I need now are people and money to expand my on-going educational programs. These programs, workshops and classes focus on teaching people how their planet's life-support system works and how that knowledge can be used to create prosperous and completely life-support sustaining economies wherever they live, and ultimately, planet wide. Well that's my pitch. Check me out. If you believe I'm on the right track and want to help, let's sit down and discuss how we can work together to create a happy, healthy, prosperous and life-support sustaining future; the most important birthright we can pass on to our young and future generations. TO FUTURE GENERATIONS, However far in the future you are when you read this, the fact that you are reading it probably means that people early in the 21st Century got it together well enough to avoid any serious life-support system collapse. It gives me pleasure to imagine you living happily in a completely life-support sustaining world where the growth of consciousness is accelerating and the human family is living not only on earth, but throughout our galaxy and even beyond. Sincerely, Jim Bell 619 758 9020, www.jimbell.com, •••@••.•••, http://www.myspace.com/jimbellelsi Mail: 4862 Voltaire St., San Diego, CA 92107- 2108 -------- Hooray Jim! rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:17:35 -0700 Subject: Re: getting on riseup not quite that easy... From: Radical Press <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Hi Richard. These guys at riseup were taken over by the Zionist forces years ago. Troskyists, Communists/Marxist/Leninists are the order of the day. Don't mention Jews out of the politically correct context and don't even breath a word about dismantling that thorn in the side of human dignity and global peace - "Israel". Can't see why you're promoting them. They're way behind and beyond the scope of your own discussions. They're inbred to the point of being dysfunctional. Peace & Light, Arthur Topham Radical Press -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 12:01:57 -0500 To: •••@••.••• From: "Raging Grannie (Wanda B)" <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: getting on riseup not quite that easy... Thought that might be the case - took over to listserv already set up on riseup and have found them not responsive to questions about operation. -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Claudia Rice" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••>, "rkm" <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: getting on riseup not quite that easy... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:10:44 -1000 try http://www.care2.com They have free email and support progressive causes. -------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Lowry" <•••@••.•••> To: "Richard Moore" <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: some thoughts re/ 'Beliefs and Learning' Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:03:09 -0700 You seem really resentful of the "elites." I share anger at their irresponsibility. They accept too much of what"must be done" to get along, and too little of what "could be done" to make things better. And while they believe it's a sin to let a sucker keep his money, it is true that it is very difficult to accrue capital and very easy to dissipate it. Even "elites" can act for altruistic reasons. imho. ------- Hi John, We need to distinguish between acts -- as individuals -- of wealthy and influential people, and acts of elites in their role within the power structure. I don't consider any individual to be an 'enemy', but I do think of the elite regime as the enemy of humanity. When we see elite 'humanitarian interventions' and 'responses to global warming' we are seeing wolves in sheep's clothing. rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 09:29:14 -0700 From: CyberBrook <•••@••.•••> To: •••@••.••• CC: •••@••.•••, •••@••.••• Subject: Re: rkm: some thoughts re/ 'Beliefs and Learning' rkm: (4) The belief that we live in a democracy is perhaps the most disempowering myth of our era. Yes, but the belief that we live in an elite totalitarian dictatorship (for lack of a better phrase) can be an equally very disempowering myth. There is tremendous elite control, to be sure, but there are also democratic flowers blooming in the cracks of the edifices. So as not to disempower ourselves and others, and so as to be best able to take appropriate action based on fuller understandings, we need to recognize the interaction effects between and amongst the buildings and the flowers.---Dan (Eco-Eating at http://www.brook.com/veg) ------- Hi Dan, Yes, there seem to be sprouts of democracy afoot, and our time may be nigh. That does not change the nature of the regime we are living under in the meantime. It is no myth that this regime is fully under the thumb of elite cliques. Recognizing that we need to escape from the regime, and not struggle within its framework, helps empower us to properly nurture the promising sprouts. cheers, rkm --------------------------------------------------- From: "Howard Switzer" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: some thoughts re/ 'Beliefs and Learning' Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:40:07 -0500 Richard, you speak my mind and heart with this piece. My memory has me creating one of my own models when I was 14 years old. (resolving the rift or disassociations between religion and science) Thank you for this excellent description of beliefs and learning. Howard Switzer <http://www.earthandstraw.net> 931-589-6513 -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:58:46 +0100 From: "Andrew Curry" <•••@••.•••> To: •••@••.••• Subject: Re: rkm: some thoughts re/ 'Beliefs and Learning' Richard, I appreciated your post on learning but it also made me think some more about the "elite" view here. I've been following this debate, but not as closely as I might. So apologies if I'm repeating something in a post I've missed. But imagining this from a well-informed elite perspective, however, one might take the view that the argument that sits 'behind' climate change - regardless of cause - is the argument about resource shortage, which has similarities with climate change (rich people consume resources, poor people suffer) but without most of the potential "mitigations". Unlike climate change, which is open to argument about market-based and (apparently) relatively painless solutions such as emissions trading, resource shortage has only one painful solution; reduce consumption. And quickly. If I was faced with these large global threats, again imagining it from an elite perspective, I know the ground I'd want to fight on. BTW, along these lines can I recommend the book Beyond Terror, which looks at the "war on terrorism" from the underlying causes of instability? I wrote a summary on my blog a couple of days ago at, <http://thenextwavefutures.wordpress.com/2007/04/29/another-take-on-defence-and-security-futures/>. Best Andrew ------- Hi Andrew, If we want to think from a US elite point of view, I suggest we need to step back a few meters and look at a much broader canvas. On the bigger canvas the main feature, in my view, is the problem of seeking to maintain global hegemony in the face of a volatile global economy, resource pressures of all kinds, an emerging Sino-Russian super power, and with China dominating global manufacturing. Global warming and terrorism don't show up as concerns. Rather they show up as solutions. Terrorism ( ala Al Qaeda) is a fabricated illusion whose purpose is to justify those measures needed to solve the real problems. A police-state apparatus will be very useful when the US population experiences economic collapse, and masses of people will be assigned to work camps. An interventionist military is useful to maximize the percentage of remaining global resources US elites can control, both for financial gain and for the power advantage they gain by controlling who gets access to what. Part of the strategy, from various items I've seen, is to largely exclude the Global South from access to global resources, so the resources can be monopolized by the North. It's like the American Indians all over again. As the nation moved west, the natives were moved to resource-poor reservations, and the resource-rich areas become the property of the advancing Europeans. What the natives got to eat and live in was what the government chose to dole out to them. Many didn't survive. With the South, the global regime is creating 'in situ reservations' by leaving the natives where they are, taking for the North whatever local resources are wanted, and doling out to the South as little as possible. Genocide (once again) is obviously part of the scenario, currently to the tune of 6 million children a year. Expanding water privatization will be a major nail in the coffin. The global warming project contributes directly to this Southern Strategy of usurpation and depopulation. The ball is already rolling with carbon credits and biofuels. Carbon trading is a scam that transfers money from Northern corporations to Northern banks (ie, the money will mostly go to pay off Southern debts to the IMF et al), and in return for this 'benefit to the South', the South relinquishes access to oil and the North gets to burn more of it. The biofuel program is a scam that usurps agricultural land in the South, reducing the South's food dole, and using that land to produce biofuels so as to extend the life of the remaining petroleum. This is already launched on a wholesale basis in Brazil. all is not what it seems, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 06:05:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Diana Skipworth <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video To: •••@••.••• See, Richard? This is why you get 'high' email once in a while... You see something like this, light coming down the tunnel, and you dare to hope it is not yet another train. So many people on YouTube give me hope (although I debate a lot). It is such a wonderful way to put things out there, and probably more effective than a letter to the editor, because of the reach. Because I have personally been healed by prayer about 30 years ago, I cannot help but believe in divine aid when the intention is pure. I think our intention is the source of our power, and just look at the power of Senator Gravel. Diana ----- Hi Diana, Yes, the power of intention. It mobilizes resources beyond our knowing. If there is power in the universe, and if one is able to connect with it, that is something that is 'real', that deserves to be acknowledged, as you have done. Then comes the question of how we interpret the experience. A Muslim would say he was 'touched by Allah', and the experience would confirm the reality of what he has been taught about Allah. Religions, at one level, can be seen as attempts to claim ownership over spiritual experience, and to define the meaning of that experience. I'm uncomfortable with the word 'divine', at least as it is usually used, in that it posits a difference in kind between human consciousness and some other kind of consciousness, a consciousness possessed by some superior kind of being, a 'divine' being. I prefer to think we are like children, and achieving divine consciousness is the direction we need to be growing toward, rather than thinking we are an inherently limited species. who really knows? rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:13:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Leo Klausmann <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video To: •••@••.••• I'm shocked and awed! He has been in obscurity up until the debates, and I can't believe they let him stand on stage. I've looked over some of the other videos on youtube and his website has good info as well. It seems he has virtually no finances at this point, put that might change. This is the kind of guy that the Diebold machines were made to protect the Elite against.... <http://gravel2008.us/?q=node/703> -------------------------------------------------------- From: david moore <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:43:24 -1000 well, for what it's worth, there's the guy to vote for !!! dave moore -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:49:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Downing <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video To: •••@••.••• Thanks Rich. Now I know who I'd support for President. Vincent -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brian Hill" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 00:16:23 -0800 Organization: Institute for Cultural Ecology There's lots of support by thinking people. To bad thinking has little to do with the system. -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Diana Jewell" <•••@••.•••> To: "'Richard Moore'" <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:12:33 -0700 Gravel got some coverage in mainstream media--on CNN he was treated like a nut-case, just as is Denis Kucinich, so it's unlikely they will have any real effect. They treat them like the typical comic relief or cat-up-a-tree stories. Diana -------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Lowry" <•••@••.•••> To: "Richard Moore" <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:38:42 -0700 rkm > Is he a 'threat to the system'? It looks now like he's being used to show how open and fair the system is. But, if the "leading" candidates just don't sound credible, who knows how things will develop ;-} -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:27:28 -0500 To: Richard Moore <•••@••.•••> From: "A. Gayle Hudgens, PhD" <•••@••.•••> Subject: Mike Gravel Here is another link for those whose Internet connection makes it difficult to watch video on their computers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Mike_Gravel -------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Ellis <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 07:21:21 -0400 To: •••@••.••• Yes ! Gravel and Richardson give some hope that the USA could be revived. Even if neither become president they are worth supporting just to get the message out. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gMlHv2lDqA&mode=related&search=> IMHO Bill Ellis <http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Bill_Ellis> If you would like more on the GaianParadigm see: http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Bill_Ellis -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 18:52:05 -0500 To: •••@••.••• From: "Raging Grannie (Wanda B)" <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video I agree - but here's what a staunch local Democrat sent our list about this -I haven't checked it out. Unfortunately ex-Senator Gravel would like to lock in place the Bush Administration's 'middle class' punishing taxation system by his regressive 'fair tax' proposal. I simply do not understand why any so-called progressive :-) would support him! During the 2006 election cycle only Minnesota's most reactionary candidate, Michele Bachman from CD6, supported the regressive 'Fair Tax' system. I would not be surprised if both of them also supports Social Security reform via 'privatization'. Fortunately there are going to be many more opportunities before the Primary to ask Mr. Gravel himself! An instant Iraq exit proposal does not mean equivocal support for America's working people. -- George -------- Hi Rager, I copied the following from Gravel's "Fair Tax" proposal on his website. Unfortunately, he seems to be a one-trick pony, as far as 'admirable policy' goes, and he couldn't be more mainstream, pro-growth, etc... rkm http://www.gravel2008.us/fair_tax * "Soak the rich" is one approach, but it never happens regardless of whether the liberals or conservatives hold political power. The wealthy have the money to game the system. * "Tax the corporations" is another approach, but corporate taxes are built into the cost of products or services, so consumers are actually paying those taxes, too. It's a hidden sales tax. I subscribe to a sales tax system, most of which is included in what is called the Fair Tax. The Fair Tax meets the fairness criteria: simplicity, transparency and no exceptions. -- -------------------------------------------------------- Posting archives: http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/ Escaping the Matrix website: http://escapingthematrix.org/ cyberjournal website: http://cyberjournal.org Community Democracy Framework: http://cyberjournal.org/DemocracyFramework.html Subscribe cyberjournal list: •••@••.••• (send blank message) cyberjournal blog (join in): http://cyberjournal-rkm.blogspot.com/ Moderator: •••@••.••• (comments welcome)
