dialog re/ recent postings

2003-08-25

Richard Moore

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Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 20:37:57 -0700
Subject: Re: change of consciousness
From: Jan Slakov <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>

Dear Richard,

I read your most recent posting. Basically I agree, but I just feel like it
is kind of thinking in the abstract since I feel called to work at a much
more concrete level. Also, I thought you had already basically said what you
said in your most recent posting; now I'm more interested to hear about
things that are actually happening right now that are helping bring about
the change we wish for.

Anyhow, as usual, it is well written (although yo must be wishing you had
changed all the Gain to Gaian before sending the thing off:-)!

all the best, Jan

-------------

Dear Jan,

As always, very nice to hear from you.

I hope that the concrete actions and the theoretical
investigations will all meet up one day in synergy.
Meanwhile we each seek hope in our own way.

Yes, what I wrote in that posting repeated things I've said
before. Given what people write to me, I find it necessary
to keep putting ideas into different words, so as that it
makes sense to some particular world view. It seems that
most of us can consider ideas only if they relate very
closely to our current world view.

In the last posting I was trying to make use of that notion.
Rather than saying, "The Gaian Scenario is wrong because of
this and this and this", I tried to get into the scenario
and support it, and suggest refinements that I think would
make it more viable. It was an attempt to think in a
consensus way, rather than debate. Don't know if it came
across that way.

best regards,
rkm

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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:45:00 -0700
To: •••@••.•••
From: Rosa Zubizarreta <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: rkm: change of consciousness

  rkm> I'm beginning to think - The Movement is here, we simply
    need to identify it.  [...] It isn't a movement which has a
    defined program or leadership, it is all those folks whose
    efforts enlighten a certain direction. Does this make sense
    to anyone?

what you wrote resonates very deeply for me... i'm not sure
if in exactly the ways you intended! there is something for
me that's hard to put into words, about the power of
appreciation... my own experience is that, there is all of
this stuff out there, and, when we NOTICE it, when we
APPRECIATE it, when we INTERACT with it, our ENERGY is
actually helping it GROW...

so, from that perspective, i rejoice very much in your
"seeing" this larger "movement", your "appreciating" all of
the various ways in which people are contributing, and the
interconnectedness and synergy between all of those various
contributions... because through your "seeing" it, i know
that it is already growing that much more...

this also connects to some thoughts i keep returning to,
about how we can support "self-organization"... sometimes
people think that if it's self-organizing, why would it need
support? ....and i offer the analogy of a child (or a plant,
for that matter...) the inner desire to grow, the unique
gifts and talents, are all there... AND, the nurturing
conditions are also very important... water and sun and
shade, in the case of a plant, and in the case of a human
being, EMPATHY.... APPRECIATION... RESPECT...

i really think that there is a whole undiscovered universe
when it comes to appreciating the true power of ATTENTION...
i mean in some ways it's obvious, such as, who we 'attend'
to in writing the historical record determines whose
contributions get highlighted and whose get buried, and in
turn affects the whole 'story' which gets handed down...

and, my experience is that there is a lot more to be
discovered about how our intentional attention, an attention
flavored with empathy, appreciation, respect, can interact
with and nourish that-which-is-growing....

anyway, these are just some late-night rambles, but i wanted
to give you a taste of what your writing evoked for me!

with all best wishes,

Rosa

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To: •••@••.•••
From: Tom Atlee <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Gaian transformation & system dynamics

Richard,

I agree with your analysis re systems.  I think there is
powerful co-influence between consciousness and system
structures and processes.  Neither is sufficient as either
explanation or tool for change.

I'm in less agreement with your focus on locality.

You say:

"Biological systems are all locality-based. Species adapt to
specific kinds of environments."

Well, sort of, and sort of not.

Migrations weave the world together.  Some happen
seasonally, some over long time periods.  They are
place-based, but many-place-based. They are not confined to
a single bioregion, as your system is.

Then there are weather patterns.  Dust, toxins and bacteria
from China blow over North America.

What is the social analogue of the vast seas of water and
air that cover the planet and move among bioregions and
without which they couldn't survive?

And now with nuclear and other toxics, one bioregion's or
community's activities can harm another.  So the whole must
have a say in the actions of the part.  There is
centralization in that.  I'm not sure you can escape it. 
The question is how to keep it benign, answerable,
expressive-of-the-interests-of-the-whole.

Not all life is local.

Coheartedly,
tom

-----------------

Dear Tom,

Yes life has a global aspect as well as a local aspect.  But
what you don't have is a majority of the world's elephants
voting to compel all elephants everywhere to change to a new
diet.  In focusing on the local, I'm trying to get the first
order term right, if you know what I mean. Do we start with
the local, and then figure out how to deal with wider
issues, or do we start with the centralized and try to
somehow enable democracy and accountability?   Everyone else
seems to be starting with centralized solutions and I'm
looking at the other approach.  Not just to be devil's
advocate, but because that's what seems to make more and
more sense the more I look at it.

One thing to notice is that many of today's local problems,
which have consequences beyond their borders, would not be
happening if the local people had anything to say about it.
It is certainly not the Amazon tribes who are destroying the
rain forests.

And these wider problems usually affect the neighboring
areas the most. I'd rather think in terms of Southeast Asia
solving Southeast Asia's problems among themselves before
involving others.

It is easy to poke holes in other people's ideas.  I've
certainly done too much of that myself!  I invite you to
think a bit about how problems might be solved in the most
decentralized way possible, rather than dismiss the idea and
revert to centralization.

Also keep in mind that in that thread we were hypothesizing
a world which had adopted the Gaian paradigm. If each
locality is trying to live sustainably and cooperatively, then
they would be unlikely to create problems for others, either
in their region or globally.

all the best,
rkm

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From: "Brian Hill" <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: * Faith, Humanity, and Power *
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:59:27 -0700
Organization: Institute for Cultural Ecology
X-Priority: 3

Richard;

This is a wonderful piece you have written.  I hope you get
it distributed well on the net and into print wherever you
can.  I have witnessed your understanding develop in
wonderful, well-rounded, open, self-critical dimensions,
since we took that trip together up the redwood coast to
mining country.  I hope you are now ready to enter the fray
of making the changes that you now understand so well need
to be made.

I feel that we are at the time when we should take the bull
(Bush) by the horns and make the changes we know are needed,
and not just stand on the sidelines and oppose.  I'm headed
for New Hampshire today to join the Dean campaign, not so
much because I think he embodies the best choice today, but
to get into his campaign and bring in Kucinch and the issues
the grass roots needs for sustainability, particularly
joining the grass roots right and the grass roots left. 
And, I have now helped begin several certified sustainable,
locally owned businesses.  The easiest to see on the net is
at www.greenkarat.com.   We hope to issue alternative money
in certified ecologically mined gold, and gold-backed
revolving funds and credit unions. I envision a Peoples'
World Bank made up of networks of community-owned revolving
funds and credit unions, like the uncorrupted parts of the
CDFI movement in the US.

As for hierarchies, I'm for councils of elders being the
most vertical social institution in our new global culture
of bioregional tribal nations.

Brian

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Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:54:22 +0200
Subject: Re: Amerikas role in world politics 1914-2003
From: Helene Connor <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>


Richard,

This is a very interesting summary of events and useful
demystification.

I thought that you could also have alluded to the "Report
from the Iron Mountains" and to the Bilberger (orthog.?)
Group.

Thanks for sharing your work.
Helene

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From: "Rex Barger" <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Faith, etc.
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:27:55 -0400

I don't see how it is possible to live without some sort of
faith.  Since "the future's not our to see", everything we
do requires faith that it's safe to do whatever it is that
we are doing.  I think you're on the right track in talking
of faith in humanity, but perhaps it might be clearer to say
"faith that our desire to serve the well-being of all life
will set us in approximately the right direction, with the
proviso that if it turns out bad, we are ready to make
amends & change our ways in the hope of doing better."

-- 

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    "...the Patriot Act followed 9-11 as smoothly as the
      suspension of the Weimar constitution followed the
      Reichstag fire."  
      - Srdja Trifkovic

    There is not a problem with the system.
    The system is the problem.

    Faith in humanity, not gods, ideologies, or programs.
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